LAS VEGAS, USA?The Tall Swede Journal interviews Professor of Pickpocketry Bob Arno, at his home in Las Vegas.

Tall Swede Journal: What ever inspired you to become a pickpocket?

Bob Arno: I started as an amateur performer in Sweden at age 15 and was a full-blown professional by 18. My specialty was audience participation, stand-up comedy, and a bit of magic that I had learned from books. But my stage persona lacked purpose. Then I saw a French pickpocket performer called Dominique, and suddenly I saw my path. Was I a good pickpocket at age 18?
Of course not. But, as in real life, youth can be an advantage. Young pickpockets are nimble, quick, and daring, but lack experience in judging a victim and his or her reaction.

Istanbul revealed more beauty than criminal secrets on Arno's most recent visit there.

TSJ: I read that your interest in real pickpockets was first piqued when you worked in Southeast Asia. Which countries were you in and when?

BA: From 1960 to '63, I worked in Pakistan, India, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Laos, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan. I returned to the Far East for another year-long tour in 1966-67. My shows were at small dingy nightclubs, and most of the US military service clubs out in the Far East. It was during these presentations that I started my lecture efforts, which were received very well.

TSJ: How do you still manage to Fit research into your very full entertaining career?

BA: I've researched the criminal aspects of pickpocketing wherever I've performed. My serious research started in 1992 when my wife Bambi and I changed our career direction. Instead of working year round in show venues, we take off a few months each year and go deep into the subculture of various confidence crimes. Not just pickpocketing, but also certain fringe and related activities.

TSJ: You consider pickpocketing a confidence crime?

BA: Absolutely. In most cases, a pickpocket manages to gain his victim's confidence, even if just for an instant, and that's what allows him to get into the victim's personal space.

TSJ: What else have you been doing since 1992?

BA: I concentrate on both lectures and performances at international business conventions. My presentations now are a far cry from my Las Vegas shows, and our research really makes the difference. Bambi and I travel the world over to track down real street thieves and film them in action.

TSJ: Exactly where have you been?

BA: Oh, everywhere except China, I think! From Antarctica to the North Pole. I performed in the Ice Hotel in the North of Sweden, on a private yacht in Cannes, in Hong Kong, Sardinia, and the middle of Amish country, Philadelphia.

TSJ: What's the longest you've been in one place since '92?

BA: Half a year in Stockholm, where we had our own theater show.

TSJ: Your website says you have lectured to millions and been to 100 countries. Really? Millions?

BA: By age thirty I had been to 82 countries. I stopped counting then. My presentations are usually for crowds of 800 to 2,000, and up to 10,000. Having been at it for over forty years it comes to more than a million. Then there's television, and each time they're rebroadcast. I've also done many talk-shows, such as The Today Show, David Letterman, and on and on.

TSJ: You say you are consulted by the police and security forces regarding your research?

BA: We work with many police forces around the world. I don't know if this is a sign of their lack of sophistication--I hope not. It's more an issue of funding and money available for the pickpocket squads. Many countries don't have serious pickpocket problems yet experience seasonal peaks when pickpockets descend on them. We teach police forces what to look for and how to recognize a pickpocket. We show them migrating techniques and behaviors.

We also work with police forces that are very knowledgeable about pickpocketing, but whose detectives are easily recognized by the thieves. This makes tracking the pickpockets much harder. We, on the other hand, are not known to the pickpockets, especially as we conduct our research looking very much like ordinary tourists. This way, we have managed to film some very sophisticated gangs in action.

TSJ: You interview pickpockets and their victims. How forthcoming are pickpockets? Are they all like the Al'alla interview on your site? [In the August 1997 issue of The Tall Swede Journal.]

BA: Absolutely not. Pickpockets are usually impossible to break--in terms of revealing their techniques, who taught them, and who their fences are. If they're good they're usually organized, and they fear for their lives or their relatives' lives, should they speak. South American pickpockets are particularly hard to establish rapport with. Some North Africans, Algerians and Moroccans can be turned. They're nearly always very poor and have left their families behind. They send most of the money they steal back home to support their families. In those situations one can find an opening and get them to speak; but it takes time and building confidence first. I have never succeeded in speaking with a skillful gypsy pickpocket, despite having built a strong relationship with an English-speaking member of the Roma community. But I'll continue to strive for that. [Arno interviewed a prolific gypsy pickpocket pair on April 21, 1999 in Barcelona, Spain.--ed.]

TSJ: How do victims react to you after a theft?

BA: Very good question! If they think that I was fairly close during the actual "hit," they might be somewhat upset that I didn't try to warn them. But then they're grateful for our assistance after the fact. We often escort victims to the police station, help them file reports, and translate foreign languages for them. But it's important to stress that we're not always certain that we're following a real pickpocket until the actual theft occurs. And of course, we don't always approach a victim after a theft. It depends on many things: keeping our "cover," wanting to pursue the pickpocket for further incidents, and filming more action. Risk factor, how much footage we already have obtained of a particular pickpocket team, and so forth all determine what we do when we see a "hit." Generally speaking, we never interfere; we just observe and film.

TSJ: What about the political aspects of the crime?

BA: That's a huge subject!

TSJ: Well, let's break it down, then, and start with the simple question: why is pickpocketing so prevalent ?

BA: Simple question, complex answer! In my own judgment, the surge in pickpocketing is coupled to a political reality: many years of socialism in Europe has improved the lot of the middle class, but there is still a small percentage of those who have nothing. It is among these people we find the majority of pickpockets. It's as if society and politicians have resigned to a status quo: we accept a 10% unemployment rate. It goes with the acceptance of the business climate in the year 2000. Global competition and, in particular, the threat of cheaper goods from the Far East, tie the hands of politicians, labor representatives, and chief executives in Europe.

TSJ: And?

BA: And the bottom line is that the tax system can absorb the cost of the unemployed. But with this comes the problem of the influx of unskilled labor, illegal immigration, and those refugees who seek better opportunities in the more industrialized nations. They enter societies where the balance between police and criminal activities was in proportion to keep the tax burden acceptable. Unemployment and the new arrivals of indigents create an environment in which pickpocketing can operate relatively freely. Pickpocketing, to a large extent, is a reflection and syndrome of this state of affairs.

Nezira, left, and Gemila claim to be refugees from Yugoslavia.

TSJ: So what can be done?

BA: A tightening of the penal code in some European countries would be a deterrent, more money for police forces which are presently understaffed would also help considerably. But this is not going to happen. For political reasons, it is unlikely that judges will be able to prosecute pickpockets with stiffer terms; and public funding for more police officers means more taxes. I cannot see any European country where the electorate would approve a tax increase. All I can foresee is an increase in pickpocketing year by year, and police frustration with the politicians.

TSJ: Will you continue to hunt pickpockets?

BA: For now, yes. But eventually it will certainly become less fun to trek 'low-lifes' in hot and humid locales, day after day, hours on end, carrying heavy photography equipment, as my wife and I do now. But for the near future, I intend to continue the challenge of searching for ever more complex and sophisticated scams and techniques.

Though barely literate, Gemila proudly showed her residence permit. She & Nezira are Gypsies.

TSJ: Is your effort meant to educate travelers?

BA: I am of the opinion that the best, maybe even the only solution to put a crimp on pickpocketing is to raise the public's awareness of this form of crime. Effective information to the public is the answer. If this information reaches the majority I believe we could cut the problem in half.

TSJ: And the whole is how much? Just how big a deal is this crime?

BA: Pickpocketing seems pretty small fry when one compares one incident to another crime. But when we look at the statistics it becomes a very large problem. For example, in Rome, in the district around the Coliseum, we have an average of 50-60 reported pickpocket thefts a day. Assume the cash loss is $100 to $300 each time, as victims are mainly tourists. That translates to a rough average of $11,000 per day in that small locale, or $330,000 in a month. Now factor in the unreported thefts! The main train station in Milan has 1,300 incidents per month, but obviously not on par in terms of financial loss to the Coliseum figures. Yet we can see that Italy has nothing less than $5,000,000 stolen in a year, conservatively speaking. Add France and Spain which are on par with the Italian scene (France somewhat less) and you do the calculation. Clearly we are talking fairly large numbers if all of Europe is included in the final statistics.

Better not trust this smiling face!

TSJ: Can you provide any stats on the Europe-wide increase in pickpocketing?

BA: We can say with certainty that there is at least a ten to fifteen percent increase in most of the large capitals in Europe for the past five years. Cities like Barcelona, Paris, Rome, Athens, Stockholm, Prague, London, and Amsterdam are certainly seeing more. In a few places there are decreases, usually because the police become more efficient in these places. Venice and Florence are not experiencing increases. Particularly good deterrents are video surveillance cameras. But here we encounter political reservations, where the public perceives this as a privacy invasion. The campaign for or against more cameras will ultimately come down to money, taxes, and public opinion.

TSJ: You seem to suggest that the main perpetrators in Europe are people who do not make up the ethnic majority, for example North Africans, Romanies, Eastern Europeans. Is this correct? Is it possible that these groups are just easier to spot committing these crimes?

BA: Do you mean that in countries like Italy, Spain or France the perpetrators are not from the ethnic majority? Absolutely and categorically true. The story repeats itself all over Europe.

TSJ: And the Gypsy involvement?

BA: In East Europe the situation may be different. And it's difficult to put a label on the Gypsy situation. At what point in their lives are they considered French or Italian? After 20 years or 30 years, even though they may have no real passports or proper documents but have resided in a country for most of their adult lives? This is not going to be a discussion of the definition of Gypsies or the level of their pickpocketing skills. Police forces in countries like France, Spain, and Italy feel that the reported pickpocketing incidents are due in large part to Gypsies; the numbers seem to be around 60% of all pickpocketing thefts. In Spain, for example there are also about 30% North African and 10% South American perpetrators. In Italy the figures are a little different. Arrested pickpockets: 40% Italians, 10% Albanians (and some Russians), 10% North Africans and 40% Gypsies (made up of various clans and nationalities, including war refugees from the former Yugoslavia).

The three pickpockets took turns demonstrating their techniques. Bob amazed one of the women by stealing her watch.

TSJ: I take it you have personal confirmation of this.

BA: In Prague we confirmed that all the pickpockets we saw, including experienced adults, family groups, and teenage girls, were Czech-speaking gypsies. It is only when we got close to them with our Gypsy contact that this could be confirmed. Their dress mode did not reveal a Gypsy cultural background (as it does in Southern Europe).

TSJ: Again, may I ask: Is it possible that these groups are just easier to spot committing these crimes?

BA: Yes, it is certainly easy to use profiling techniques when evaluating the first signs of a pattern. However, when talking with the police in Spain and Italy it becomes clear that the statistics relating to apprehending pickpockets do tell a story which is universal. The poorer groups--those I've been mentioning--are usually the culprits. But not always. For example in Scandinavia we see few Gypsy pickpockets but many North Africans.

TSJ: Have you seen any non-minority-group pickpockets operating?

BA: Certainly! Some in Russia, others in Italy. One day in Rome last summer we spent six hours riding buses--particularly bus 64, which goes back and forth between the Vatican and Terminali, the main train station. Locals call it the "heaven to hell express," and it's rife with pickpockets. We were following two young Gypsy girls who had all the signs of being pickpockets. It was 90?, yet they carried coats over their arms, to be used as shields when they dip into purses, pockets, and handbags. We moved up close to them at the doors of the bus where it was extremely crowded. I suddenly sensed that Bambi and I were being maneuvered into position for a "dip" by two men in their late forties. One managed to separate Bambi from me and the other moved directly behind me. I knew we were soon going to be hit by these guys.

I was carrying a large wad of money-sized cut newspaper in my right pants pocket to entice the "pick". The "bills" were folded, with a real 1,000-lire note on the outside. I positioned my small video camera so that it shot down from above where my hand held a bus strap. The guy went for the money and took it while there was swirl of passengers and everyone was bumping against each other. Some seconds passed while he examined what he thought was a lot of money. I kept filming his face and his partner's. He checked the wad and realized that it was all fake. You see his face tighten and hear rapid lingo to his friend. At the next push and shove by the passengers all around us he re-inserted the wad into my pocket. From then on he held a bag in front of his face, blocking my camera view of him. He and his partner got off at the next stop.

These were well-dressed Italians. Point of the story: one may assume that Gypsies with the appropriate "props" are the culprits, but less-obvious teams are lurking around as well.

TSJ: The "observing-not-interfering" thing is something I'm still coming to terms with in regard to journalism. How do you cope with it, or justify it?

BA: That's without doubt the most difficult question to address. I am not even certain that I have sorted it all out myself, even as I think about the motivations and my presence when something happens. In years prior when I witnessed far more horrific events and when I could have stepped in, so to say, there was never a question in my mind. I was an observer. But even as an observer I was part of the manipulation of political forces and events. Yet, it was clear to me, in my inexperienced and rather immature views of the significance of the moment, that I was simply taking a visual slice out of that day's history.

TSJ: And today?

BA: The filming of street thieves I do today is a little more complex. I have the power to turn the event in a new direction if I so want. I think I can state, quite conscientiously though, that my filming does have an effect on the destiny of this sort of crime. The teaching vehicles I make for police forces, the catching of faces of these pickpockets for frame-grabs which are used by the legal system, the documentaries and tv news segments I do which go to educate the public The bottom line is that it does have an effect. But yes, there are instances when a wallet stolen could have been saved had I stepped in earlier.

TSJ: Does that bother you?

BA: It's certainly a dilemma for me but it is not on a daily basis that I am faced with that hard choice. Usually our filming is done from some distance away from the action. Neither are we a police force, with appropriate training or authority. And most importantly, we often don't know a thief is a thief until it's too late. We follow, and sometimes film, an awful lot of suspicious-looking innocents. My answer may to some extent be a cop-out, and maybe the more honest answer is that we just want to get more footage of a crime that is very, very difficult to capture on film. There is a rush and a satisfaction in the filmmaking itself.

TSJ: Okay then, Bob. Leaving the subject of politics and moving on to danger. In your report on Tangier, Bambi says her "shoulders were tense with the perception of continuous threat." How much of a threat does your lifestyle pose you?

BA: Every country poses different challenges and threats, depending on who we pursue. For example, in Naples we have to be extremely cautious and use different cameras, so-called "lipstick" cameras, as we can never be certain of the outcome if we're found out. When we're in more dangerous places, Russia for example, we get help from people who speak the local language. These are much more violent societies, in general. Sometimes we work in close association with the police departments' pickpocket detail, in North America, for example. But even there we have to be cautious, as one cannot predict a criminal's reaction when it dawns on him that he has been trapped--when he knows there is clear evidence of his theft.

TSJ: Evidence being your videotape.

BA: Right. Usually, when a pickpocket senses that he's in danger of being apprehended or detected, he'll drop the wallet onto the ground. If caught, there is then no evidence that he's the one who extracted the wallet from its owner. To videotape a pickpocket and catch him red-handed, so to say, means that he can't argue himself out of the confrontation. For that reason we have to be more careful when we're in locations where pickpocketing has organized crime connections, such as in South America and Poland. Also, we usually only stay a few weeks in each country and not too long in any one city. Maximum is usually five to seven days so that the local crime community doesn't get hip to our appearance. It's hard to hide a six-foot-five skinny guy.

TSJ: How does law enforcement perceive you?

BA: Until they know us, we're a concern, because our behavior doesn't fit the pattern of a tourist's or a local's. To law enforcement, our behavior appears suspicious. Like the criminals, we look at people instead of at the sites and monuments. We loiter. We stalk. But once we bring video evidence to the police, they give us respect, encouragement, and even assistance. More than a few police departments have explained that all their plainclothes officers are easily recognized by the local criminal community. My wife and I, dressed like ordinary tourists, in fact like perfect "marks," can get close to the action.

TSJ: So the thieves themselves perceive you as tourists?

BA: The pickpockets cannot be certain whether we're new plainclothes police or just tourists with a video camera, should they detect us, and they'd rather just melt back into the crowd than hustle us or confront us.

TSJ: What was the most dangerous situation you've gotten into?

BA: In terms of my own security, I believe filming in St. Petersburg's Apraksin Dvor market a few years back was the most nerve-wracking. Nothing happened though. I dressed in Russian clothes and had Russian friends walk with me while they spoke Russian to me as if I were one of them. This was during a time when the sub-regions of Russia were quite antagonistic to each other and there were armored vehicles everywhere. Every conceivable black-market item was on display and one could smell the crooks in every nook and cranny.

TSJ: What attracts you to this work?

BA: I feel I have led an extremely rich and exciting life. It may be a little bit arrogant to state, but I believe I have practically reached every goal I have set out, as an entertainer, as a business man, and to some extent as an explorer. I have traveled extensively throughout Africa and the Far East. I have witnesses political confrontations, from upheavals in Indonesia during Sukarno's days, to rioting in Hong Kong, the fall of Zanzibar, and on and on. By the time I was thirty I had my own television specials on Dutch and Swedish channels. Later, I worked American theater and casino shows, and I felt the challenge of that segment of show business was fully satisfied.

So, to answer your question, today I feel more re-charged and excited about life than ever before. To some extent I have stumbled on an activity that has grown into a very exclusive and unique niche. I am probably better-versed and informed in the field of international pickpocketing than any other person in the world. Meaning, the psychology and behavior patterns of these street criminals. There may be certain security experts at Kroll and in the US Secret Service who have more access to files than I have and therefore also more precise knowledge and information on specific targets, for example certain airports where there is suddenly an increase in pickpocketing. But in general terms I have not come across anyone who has my footage or insight. It is a little like going on a safari in Africa and spotting "the big five." It's certainly a rush to spot a really skillful pickpocket, in particular if it is a "lone wolf," someone who is very good at what he does and does it alone, without a partner.

TSJ: You sound like you respect the people you expose. Would you agree?

BA: In a few instances--very rare--there is admiration on my part. I know what it takes and I realize that one must have a combination of stealth and precise choreography in the execution of certain moves, graced with the perfection and timing required to make it all seem fluid and effortless. Yet I know that it takes many, many years to reach this level of perfection, and that only two or three percent of pickpockets ever reach it.

On the other hand I never forget the nearly universal disgust and anger that victims feel when they realize they have been robbed. I do sympathize with their frustration and their feeling of violation in these situations. The invasion of their privacy and their personal space, so to say. The realization that they have been had--an experience most people never forget. I feel I am on a mission, to some extent, in that my goal is to make the ultimate teaching tape that will put pickpocketing to a near stand-still. It's all a question of information, documentation, education. If we all know what to watch out for, pickpockets would never succeed. It's not like muggings, or house break-ins where it's unpredictable and difficult to change the odds.

We have just finished with a documentary for London Weekend Television called Beware, Pickpocket, which will be broadcast in the UK in early June, elsewhere in the world later. It will reveal to the general public how pickpockets really operate, how they select a victim, and how they distract you. We are currently working on another, the details of which I am not at liberty to discuss.

TSJ: Can you see yourself doing this for the rest of your working life?

BA: As a researcher and documentarist, every day is more challenging and interesting than the day before. And as a corporate entertainer and lecturer, I have the satisfaction of incorporating my latest knowledge and footage in my presentations. I have never been involved with anything so tremendously demanding and yet exciting. We seem to find new twists and techniques every week that we are out in the field.

TSJ: Last question, Bob. Where are you based?

BA: My main home is in Las Vegas. That's where I maintain my library, where I do my video editing and so forth. I also have a home in Sweden.

TSJ: Thank you, Bob.